Comments on: An Order of Retail Therapy with a Side of Frustration http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/ find blogs from all kinds of lesbian families Sat, 13 Mar 2010 15:57:40 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Erin O' http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-3453 Erin O' Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:56:33 +0000 http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/#comment-3453 I consider any hand-me-downs to be an act of reusing/recycling, and thus good for the environment, so that fulfills #1 and #6, and sort of #5, because we aren't further contributing to this problem by getting something new. So we won't be picky with hand-me-downs or thrift store goods. Unless something is truly offensive -- "chick magnet" should only be worn by cute little dogs, imho. #5 and #6 are very difficult to fulfill if you're trying to save money, so you could register somewhere that has this type of product, and let indulgent grandparents and friends fulfill their own need to buy cute things for your little guy. In all of the pics we've gotten of our sons, at least one of them is wearing "girl's" clothing -- pinks, frills, pics of Minnie Mouse. Obviously, in an orphanage environment whatever fits and is clean and available is what is chosen for the kids. When the boys get here, and have to move in a society where they will stick out for being different in so many ways -- being from Ethiopia, being black and having white parents, having been adopted -- I don't want to add to their difficulties by dressing them in ways that might make them feel uncomfortable amongst other kids, which we know can become like Lord of the Flies in an instant. I'm guessing we'll have a variety of clothes, not too much "super boy"- looking stuff, and dress-up clothes. My brother and I dressed up a lot as kids, and he never thought twice about wearing dresses and wigs, nor I about wearing a false mustache. He also loved playing with Barbies. As did his GI Joe doll. Sorry for going on so long! I consider any hand-me-downs to be an act of reusing/recycling, and thus good for the environment, so that fulfills #1 and #6, and sort of #5, because we aren’t further contributing to this problem by getting something new. So we won’t be picky with hand-me-downs or thrift store goods. Unless something is truly offensive — “chick magnet” should only be worn by cute little dogs, imho. #5 and #6 are very difficult to fulfill if you’re trying to save money, so you could register somewhere that has this type of product, and let indulgent grandparents and friends fulfill their own need to buy cute things for your little guy.

In all of the pics we’ve gotten of our sons, at least one of them is wearing “girl’s” clothing — pinks, frills, pics of Minnie Mouse. Obviously, in an orphanage environment whatever fits and is clean and available is what is chosen for the kids. When the boys get here, and have to move in a society where they will stick out for being different in so many ways — being from Ethiopia, being black and having white parents, having been adopted — I don’t want to add to their difficulties by dressing them in ways that might make them feel uncomfortable amongst other kids, which we know can become like Lord of the Flies in an instant.

I’m guessing we’ll have a variety of clothes, not too much “super boy”- looking stuff, and dress-up clothes. My brother and I dressed up a lot as kids, and he never thought twice about wearing dresses and wigs, nor I about wearing a false mustache. He also loved playing with Barbies. As did his GI Joe doll.

Sorry for going on so long!

]]> By: Mo http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-3168 Mo Wed, 07 Mar 2007 05:40:19 +0000 http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/#comment-3168 I agree on the Hannah Andersson. We have received some of it, and it lasts forever!! Like many folks, we preferred gender neutral clothing for our kids, but received mostly stereotypical boy or girl stuff from other people. Some of it was too over the top to use, but after the initial gift-giving frenzy was over, we were free to buy what we wanted, which was mostly comfortable sweats and striped shirts (kind of like what we would wear ourselves, hee hee). We enjoy dressing our daughter in her brother's old play clothes, but we also enjoy the cute dresses that people have given us. She LOVES pink, and will pick it over other colors when given the choice. So we try to keep the pink mixed in with other neutral-colored play clothes. For the most part, I HATE the horrid cuts of many girl clothes. Why should a baby have an elastic off the shoulder kind of style? It's ridiculous. In general, boy clothes are more sensibly made. The funniest thing we purchased was a stretch suit for our daughter that said "My heart belongs to daddy" on the sleeve. It was a very cute suit, so we just cut off the letters, although I doubt anyone would have ever noticed. I agree on the Hannah Andersson. We have received some of it, and it lasts forever!!

Like many folks, we preferred gender neutral clothing for our kids, but received mostly stereotypical boy or girl stuff from other people. Some of it was too over the top to use, but after the initial gift-giving frenzy was over, we were free to buy what we wanted, which was mostly comfortable sweats and striped shirts (kind of like what we would wear ourselves, hee hee).

We enjoy dressing our daughter in her brother’s old play clothes, but we also enjoy the cute dresses that people have given us. She LOVES pink, and will pick it over other colors when given the choice. So we try to keep the pink mixed in with other neutral-colored play clothes. For the most part, I HATE the horrid cuts of many girl clothes. Why should a baby have an elastic off the shoulder kind of style? It’s ridiculous. In general, boy clothes are more sensibly made.

The funniest thing we purchased was a stretch suit for our daughter that said “My heart belongs to daddy” on the sleeve. It was a very cute suit, so we just cut off the letters, although I doubt anyone would have ever noticed.

]]> By: lydia http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-3161 lydia Wed, 07 Mar 2007 04:50:02 +0000 http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/#comment-3161 If I were you (and I wholeheartedly agree, btw), I would try www.hannaandersson.com... this is a wonderful Swedish company, much of whose clothing is very gender neutral. It is somewhat pricey (though they are always running sales, and you can get them for less on Ebay), but the quality of the cottons are unbelievable... like dressing the baby in butter that wears like iron. The colors are vibrant and beautiful, and nary a monster truck, billboard-like ads, or dumb slogan to be found. If I were you (and I wholeheartedly agree, btw), I would try http://www.hannaandersson.com... this is a wonderful Swedish company, much of whose clothing is very gender neutral. It is somewhat pricey (though they are always running sales, and you can get them for less on Ebay), but the quality of the cottons are unbelievable… like dressing the baby in butter that wears like iron. The colors are vibrant and beautiful, and nary a monster truck, billboard-like ads, or dumb slogan to be found.

]]> By: Kwynne http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-3159 Kwynne Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:22:53 +0000 http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/#comment-3159 Great topic. I have a follow up post that I've been working on that I was going to share, but I'm not sure if this would just be a rehash. Maybe I will post it. Anyhow, for us, it really really does not matter. Our kid is mostly in blue, cuz that is what folks got us, but DP went out and bought a LOT of pink, so he is in pink a lot as well. He gets "girl" from many strangers, and then when folks ask his name and we tell them and they get all apologetic. Really, it makes no difference to us. He doesn't know he's a boy. Really. I don't know. I hear you on not pushing the gender stuff when you are abroad (I was just in the Caribbean and he did wear pink, but only when at home) but when I'm here, I really want to push it. Best of luck on your trip. I can't wait to hear details. Great topic. I have a follow up post that I’ve been working on that I was going to share, but I’m not sure if this would just be a rehash. Maybe I will post it.

Anyhow, for us, it really really does not matter. Our kid is mostly in blue, cuz that is what folks got us, but DP went out and bought a LOT of pink, so he is in pink a lot as well. He gets “girl” from many strangers, and then when folks ask his name and we tell them and they get all apologetic. Really, it makes no difference to us. He doesn’t know he’s a boy. Really.

I don’t know. I hear you on not pushing the gender stuff when you are abroad (I was just in the Caribbean and he did wear pink, but only when at home) but when I’m here, I really want to push it.

Best of luck on your trip. I can’t wait to hear details.

]]> By: Wendy http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-3047 Wendy Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:41:50 +0000 http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/#comment-3047 Hey Art - I love this conversation. When I had Gillian (14) I was determined to dress her in non-gendered clothes. My mother and sister showed up the day before we were released with the pinkest, laciest dress they could find. Gillian has always tended to want to wear clothes that were from the "boys" section. I have very few pictures of her in dresses. Since she is able to pick out her own clothes, she dresses exclusively in the boy/men's section. She will ask me from time to time if I am disappointed in her because she doesn't wear dresses, to which I tell her absolutely not. Now Katie (4) wants to wear dresses every day and the pinker and frillier the better. I bow down and let her. It's what she likes. I tend to try and get her dresses from Hanna Andersson (on sale or ebay) where they are funkier and more versatile (play all day comes with leggings). If I had a boy, I truly don't know what I would do. I don't know if I could put pink on a boy, I just don't know. I'm being honest. When we were away on vacation there was a family at the table next to us with 3 boys, the baby was dressed in pink. I assummed he was a girl and made an assine comment about having a girl after 2 boys when the Mom told me that she was a he and did I feel like an ass. Making assumptions. I apologized and the Mom said everyone says that. Still, I feel as though I should be more evolved for some reason. Having said all that, have a great trip, say hi to the baby from us and we'll get together when you get back! You know I am going to want to see pictures! Traveling Mercies to you and Pili! Love, Wendy Hey Art – I love this conversation. When I had Gillian (14) I was determined to dress her in non-gendered clothes. My mother and sister showed up the day before we were released with the pinkest, laciest dress they could find. Gillian has always tended to want to wear clothes that were from the “boys” section. I have very few pictures of her in dresses. Since she is able to pick out her own clothes, she dresses exclusively in the boy/men’s section. She will ask me from time to time if I am disappointed in her because she doesn’t wear dresses, to which I tell her absolutely not. Now Katie (4) wants to wear dresses every day and the pinker and frillier the better. I bow down and let her. It’s what she likes. I tend to try and get her dresses from Hanna Andersson (on sale or ebay) where they are funkier and more versatile (play all day comes with leggings). If I had a boy, I truly don’t know what I would do. I don’t know if I could put pink on a boy, I just don’t know. I’m being honest. When we were away on vacation there was a family at the table next to us with 3 boys, the baby was dressed in pink. I assummed he was a girl and made an assine comment about having a girl after 2 boys when the Mom told me that she was a he and did I feel like an ass. Making assumptions. I apologized and the Mom said everyone says that. Still, I feel as though I should be more evolved for some reason.
Having said all that, have a great trip, say hi to the baby from us and we’ll get together when you get back! You know I am going to want to see pictures! Traveling Mercies to you and Pili!
Love,
Wendy

]]> By: Donna http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-2979 Donna Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:50:44 +0000 http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/#comment-2979 In a few years it won't matter. Your kid will be wearing exactly what he or she wants. I have a friend who's son dresses in pink dress up dresses and wears crowns while he plays football with the neighborhood boys. My daughter will wear boys clothes princess dresses cowboy boots and high heals-I do have to insist on her changing out the high heals and boots for sneakers on PE days. (of course these 2 kids are best friends, age 6 both of them). Of course I never balked at hand me downs either! Dress them in what makes you feel good-my daughter did have her own little flannel shirts when she was little! In a few years it won’t matter. Your kid will be wearing exactly what he or she wants. I have a friend who’s son dresses in pink dress up dresses and wears crowns while he plays football with the neighborhood boys. My daughter will wear boys clothes princess dresses cowboy boots and high heals-I do have to insist on her changing out the high heals and boots for sneakers on PE days. (of course these 2 kids are best friends, age 6 both of them). Of course I never balked at hand me downs either! Dress them in what makes you feel good-my daughter did have her own little flannel shirts when she was little!

]]> By: Liza http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-2957 Liza Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:46:08 +0000 http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/#comment-2957 This is probably the biggest area where I've let "lesbian mom guilt" influence my decisionmaking, and where I feel like I would probably treat a daughter differently. I feel like it might be too much for us to deliberately add gender nonconformity to a boy who is already "different" by virtue of having 2 moms. Not that the other infants notice, much less care. All this will be subject to negotiation once Noah can express his own preferences about clothing. If he chooses pinks, that's fine. But short of the sexualized male message clothes, ie "Boob Man" t-shirts, I'm ok with putting him in "boy" clothes. On a related note, I'd like to buy Noah a baby doll. He loves the littler babies at school, and I think he'd enjoy it. After an hour of Internet searches, I've found 4 boy baby dolls that were less than $100; the most common one is marketed as a potty training aide. I'm leaning towards that one since it's anatomically correct. I'm not sure exactly why I want to get him a boy doll instead of a girl doll, but it has something to do with a sense that the doll should be "like him." This is probably the biggest area where I’ve let “lesbian mom guilt” influence my decisionmaking, and where I feel like I would probably treat a daughter differently.

I feel like it might be too much for us to deliberately add gender nonconformity to a boy who is already “different” by virtue of having 2 moms. Not that the other infants notice, much less care.

All this will be subject to negotiation once Noah can express his own preferences about clothing. If he chooses pinks, that’s fine. But short of the sexualized male message clothes, ie “Boob Man” t-shirts, I’m ok with putting him in “boy” clothes.

On a related note, I’d like to buy Noah a baby doll. He loves the littler babies at school, and I think he’d enjoy it. After an hour of Internet searches, I’ve found 4 boy baby dolls that were less than $100; the most common one is marketed as a potty training aide. I’m leaning towards that one since it’s anatomically correct.

I’m not sure exactly why I want to get him a boy doll instead of a girl doll, but it has something to do with a sense that the doll should be “like him.”

]]> By: Round is Funny http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-2910 Round is Funny Mon, 05 Mar 2007 02:20:33 +0000 http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/#comment-2910 Yep, Mouse hit it on the head. We have standards pretty similar to yours, but they came into direct conflict with baby shower gifts and the 3 years of hand-me-downs we got from a friend. When it came down to it, we did weed out the football star crap, but we couldn't fathom turning up our nose at hand-me-down clothes just because they were blue. And occasionally we have purposely picked out pink onesies for him just to make ourselves feel better. Despite the shit fit I threw over turtles marketed to boys the first time I went to Babies R Us, this has been one of many battles in only a few short months that ended up on the "don't fight this one" list. Yep, Mouse hit it on the head. We have standards pretty similar to yours, but they came into direct conflict with baby shower gifts and the 3 years of hand-me-downs we got from a friend. When it came down to it, we did weed out the football star crap, but we couldn’t fathom turning up our nose at hand-me-down clothes just because they were blue. And occasionally we have purposely picked out pink onesies for him just to make ourselves feel better.

Despite the shit fit I threw over turtles marketed to boys the first time I went to Babies R Us, this has been one of many battles in only a few short months that ended up on the “don’t fight this one” list.

]]> By: shelli http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-2909 shelli Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:32:26 +0000 http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/#comment-2909 In the beginning we were ANTI Pink, the whole nine yards. now, we stick her in what fits, truth be told. I do have some great onesies from The Salvat*on Army. Whole Foods sells some nice organic cotton stuff, but it's WAY expensive! Macy*s has some good stuff, and they usually have a good sale going on for "last season." So you just buy a few sizes bigger than you need, and you're all set! In the beginning we were ANTI Pink, the whole nine yards.

now, we stick her in what fits, truth be told. I do have some great onesies from The Salvat*on Army.

Whole Foods sells some nice organic cotton stuff, but it’s WAY expensive!

Macy*s has some good stuff, and they usually have a good sale going on for “last season.” So you just buy a few sizes bigger than you need, and you’re all set!

]]> By: Dana http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/comment-page-1/#comment-2908 Dana Mon, 05 Mar 2007 00:47:45 +0000 http://lesbianfamily.org/2007/03/04/an-order-of-retail-therapy-with-a-side-of-frustration/#comment-2908 FYI, here's the <a href="http://mombian.com/2006/03/13/raising-boys-without-men/" rel="nofollow">review of Drexler's book</a> I wrote last spring. Bottom line, IMHO: well intentioned, but sloppy science, and ignores some of the finer points of gender identity. (Abigail Garner also questioned Drexler's methodology in a radio interview that is no longer available online but is referenced on <a href="http://damnstraight.oversampled.net/2005/12/24/boys-will-be-boys-and-teenage-girls-will-be-a-handful/" rel="nofollow">Garner's blog</a>.) FYI, here’s the review of Drexler’s book I wrote last spring. Bottom line, IMHO: well intentioned, but sloppy science, and ignores some of the finer points of gender identity. (Abigail Garner also questioned Drexler’s methodology in a radio interview that is no longer available online but is referenced on Garner’s blog.)

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